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	<title>Comments for Faithful Politics</title>
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	<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org</link>
	<description>Being faithful with our politics, not political with our faith.</description>
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		<title>Comment on Preliminary Thoughts Concerning Homosexual Marriage by Hannah</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/05/11/preliminary-thoughts-concerning-homosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 16:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1263#comment-905</guid>
		<description>I LOVE this post...I think this is one of the most constructive and rational Christian perspectives I&#039;ve heard on the topic of gay marriage. Thanks for sharing, Kolburt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I LOVE this post&#8230;I think this is one of the most constructive and rational Christian perspectives I&#8217;ve heard on the topic of gay marriage. Thanks for sharing, Kolburt.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Superior Order: Why Georgetown&#8217;s Letter To Paul Ryan Is Wrong by Anthony</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/05/09/the-superior-order/comment-page-1/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 07:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1257#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Thanks for your kind thoughts! I’ve been trying to think of the best way to respond to the several points you bring up. Let’s focus on this statement: “In principle, individuals are morally responsible for helping individuals.” If you agree with this, then you agree with me.

The differences between the U.S. government and the Roman empire are immaterial in reference to this principle: regardless of the nature of the bureaucracy, Jesus was pointing the finger of responsibility towards the people in front of Him, not the State, whatever its form.

“Legislation of morality” is a red herring. On one hand, your point is somewhat misleading; no one flatly supports ‘expensive wars’ – only particular wars – and this is hardly a characteristic of Conservatives across the board (some support some wars, some support none, etc.). And you could easily support a particular war &lt;em&gt;and &lt;/em&gt;social welfare programs. On the other hand, your point is simply mistaken; the nature of law is to track morality because law prescribes behavior – it defines what ought and ought not be done in society. Perhaps there are unjust laws (that prescribe things incorrectly), but that is a failure in function, not in form. But all of this has very little to do with our defining principle for this article: individuals are morally accountable for aiding other people.

Finally, your last point seems to be “If the Church did its job better, then smaller government would be better; until then, an unsustainably large government is best.” I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your reasoning. It sounds like you are agreeing with the principle that individuals are responsible for helping individuals, but you are disillusioned by many people in the Church failing to do so. Why would many people’s failures to follow the principle invalidate the principle itself? Rather than trying to substitute a system that we know does not follow Jesus’ commands (State-managed welfare programs), wouldn’t the better course of action be to motivate the Body to act appropriately as our Lord commanded? Especially given the reality that you reference: the government is spending money that it simply doesn’t have.

I think we both agree: the vulnerable need protection and Christians should provide it. I&#039;m not convinced that the State is either equipped or obligated to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Thanks for your kind thoughts! I’ve been trying to think of the best way to respond to the several points you bring up. Let’s focus on this statement: “In principle, individuals are morally responsible for helping individuals.” If you agree with this, then you agree with me.</p>
<p>The differences between the U.S. government and the Roman empire are immaterial in reference to this principle: regardless of the nature of the bureaucracy, Jesus was pointing the finger of responsibility towards the people in front of Him, not the State, whatever its form.</p>
<p>“Legislation of morality” is a red herring. On one hand, your point is somewhat misleading; no one flatly supports ‘expensive wars’ – only particular wars – and this is hardly a characteristic of Conservatives across the board (some support some wars, some support none, etc.). And you could easily support a particular war <em>and </em>social welfare programs. On the other hand, your point is simply mistaken; the nature of law is to track morality because law prescribes behavior – it defines what ought and ought not be done in society. Perhaps there are unjust laws (that prescribe things incorrectly), but that is a failure in function, not in form. But all of this has very little to do with our defining principle for this article: individuals are morally accountable for aiding other people.</p>
<p>Finally, your last point seems to be “If the Church did its job better, then smaller government would be better; until then, an unsustainably large government is best.” I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your reasoning. It sounds like you are agreeing with the principle that individuals are responsible for helping individuals, but you are disillusioned by many people in the Church failing to do so. Why would many people’s failures to follow the principle invalidate the principle itself? Rather than trying to substitute a system that we know does not follow Jesus’ commands (State-managed welfare programs), wouldn’t the better course of action be to motivate the Body to act appropriately as our Lord commanded? Especially given the reality that you reference: the government is spending money that it simply doesn’t have.</p>
<p>I think we both agree: the vulnerable need protection and Christians should provide it. I&#8217;m not convinced that the State is either equipped or obligated to do so.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Superior Order: Why Georgetown&#8217;s Letter To Paul Ryan Is Wrong by Mark</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/05/09/the-superior-order/comment-page-1/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 00:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1257#comment-895</guid>
		<description>As one who, in the political arena, opposes most of what Paul Ryan is proposing, I have to admit that you make a good argument. You are absolutely right, in Matt 25 Jesus tells YOU and ME to visit Him, feed Him and clothe Him. Jesus doesn&#039;t say we should lobby the Gov&#039;t to do this. He doesn&#039;t say bureaucrats should do this. 

As an aside, though, I would point out that the &quot;Gov&#039;t&quot; in the Middle East 2000 years ago was NOT exactly one where &quot;citizens&quot; were allowed to vote, lobby and advocate for or against any of the imperial budget being spent on such things as visiting prisoners, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. These folks were simply executed or used for entertainment in the Coliseum. 

But my main point is this: If you, as a Christian in America in 2012, believe that the gov&#039;t should not be involved in meeting food, clothing, housing, medical or educational needs...then you should also agree that the gov&#039;t should not be involved in legislating or enforcing morality. The problem I always have with my conservative Sisters and Brothers in Christ (in America) is that they want it both ways when it comes to the gov&#039;t, and what the Church&#039;s relationship to the gov&#039;t should be. They want the gov&#039;t to leave their money alone. They talk about smaller gov&#039;t; gov&#039;t within its means, and so on. But they want BIG BUDGET-BUSTING gov&#039;t when it comes to fighting expensive wars, and when it comes to dictating what consenting adults can and can&#039;t do in private. 

Yes, if the Body of Christ in America more fully walked out what Jesus teaches and convicts us to do...which involves efforts toward feeding folks AND cultivating behavior that honors God and everyone else as God-imagers (which is really the core of what morality should be about, eh?)...well, then I guess the idea of a very small gov&#039;t would be more appealing to me. 

As it stands, as long as we (the Church) don&#039;t protest against the money the gov&#039;t doesn&#039;t have, but is spending on all these wars - military and otherwise - I, for one, will continue arguing that it can also spend money it doesn&#039;t have on the feeding, housing, medical and general well-being needs of especially the most vulnerable among us. I will continue to vote for candidates who feel the same way. 

Much respect, love and grace...Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one who, in the political arena, opposes most of what Paul Ryan is proposing, I have to admit that you make a good argument. You are absolutely right, in Matt 25 Jesus tells YOU and ME to visit Him, feed Him and clothe Him. Jesus doesn&#8217;t say we should lobby the Gov&#8217;t to do this. He doesn&#8217;t say bureaucrats should do this. </p>
<p>As an aside, though, I would point out that the &#8220;Gov&#8217;t&#8221; in the Middle East 2000 years ago was NOT exactly one where &#8220;citizens&#8221; were allowed to vote, lobby and advocate for or against any of the imperial budget being spent on such things as visiting prisoners, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. These folks were simply executed or used for entertainment in the Coliseum. </p>
<p>But my main point is this: If you, as a Christian in America in 2012, believe that the gov&#8217;t should not be involved in meeting food, clothing, housing, medical or educational needs&#8230;then you should also agree that the gov&#8217;t should not be involved in legislating or enforcing morality. The problem I always have with my conservative Sisters and Brothers in Christ (in America) is that they want it both ways when it comes to the gov&#8217;t, and what the Church&#8217;s relationship to the gov&#8217;t should be. They want the gov&#8217;t to leave their money alone. They talk about smaller gov&#8217;t; gov&#8217;t within its means, and so on. But they want BIG BUDGET-BUSTING gov&#8217;t when it comes to fighting expensive wars, and when it comes to dictating what consenting adults can and can&#8217;t do in private. </p>
<p>Yes, if the Body of Christ in America more fully walked out what Jesus teaches and convicts us to do&#8230;which involves efforts toward feeding folks AND cultivating behavior that honors God and everyone else as God-imagers (which is really the core of what morality should be about, eh?)&#8230;well, then I guess the idea of a very small gov&#8217;t would be more appealing to me. </p>
<p>As it stands, as long as we (the Church) don&#8217;t protest against the money the gov&#8217;t doesn&#8217;t have, but is spending on all these wars &#8211; military and otherwise &#8211; I, for one, will continue arguing that it can also spend money it doesn&#8217;t have on the feeding, housing, medical and general well-being needs of especially the most vulnerable among us. I will continue to vote for candidates who feel the same way. </p>
<p>Much respect, love and grace&#8230;Mark</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tim Tebow and Cosmopolitan Christianity by Terese Kearney</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/04/09/tim-tebow-and-cosmopolitan-christianity/comment-page-1/#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Terese Kearney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1202#comment-797</guid>
		<description>Great commentary!  Now how about Bubba Watson&#039;s post win interview - it was tragically cut short on the channel that carried the entire tournament!  Very tempered, humble comments on his decisions and values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great commentary!  Now how about Bubba Watson&#8217;s post win interview &#8211; it was tragically cut short on the channel that carried the entire tournament!  Very tempered, humble comments on his decisions and values.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Interfaith Workings by Patrick Murray</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2008/11/16/interfaith-workings/comment-page-1/#comment-780</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 02:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/2008/11/16/interfaith-workings/#comment-780</guid>
		<description>@ Keane
  what would the church working with the Government look like? my church is involved with the greater Chicago Food depository and runs a food pantry. the Depository gets food form donations purchases food and gets some from the federal government. while i believe that the church should feed the poor and the government is helping that. (the food provided is probably subsidized food that should be desubsidized so that free markets can take place but besides point or is it.....)  it also gives us a chance to share the gospel. the Chicago Depository then Directs all people looking for food to our doors.  is this not a good way to reach out? and shows how we can work together.  also right now im working with foster care agency to over a christian summer Camp to their Youth (Camp Awana) because as a foster child, i was given funds by my agency to attend camps.  this provides us with funding and souls. this seams like a great way to work together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Keane<br />
  what would the church working with the Government look like? my church is involved with the greater Chicago Food depository and runs a food pantry. the Depository gets food form donations purchases food and gets some from the federal government. while i believe that the church should feed the poor and the government is helping that. (the food provided is probably subsidized food that should be desubsidized so that free markets can take place but besides point or is it&#8230;..)  it also gives us a chance to share the gospel. the Chicago Depository then Directs all people looking for food to our doors.  is this not a good way to reach out? and shows how we can work together.  also right now im working with foster care agency to over a christian summer Camp to their Youth (Camp Awana) because as a foster child, i was given funds by my agency to attend camps.  this provides us with funding and souls. this seams like a great way to work together.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Illustration Of The Federal Budget by Patrick Murray</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/01/11/illustration-of-the-federal-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-779</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 02:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1071#comment-779</guid>
		<description>Well, 
obviously the people who wrote this budget need to go to Dave Ramsey&#039;s Financial Peace University and learn how to budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well,<br />
obviously the people who wrote this budget need to go to Dave Ramsey&#8217;s Financial Peace University and learn how to budget.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Crossroads: Can a Christian Vote for a Mormon? by Jack Hageman</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/01/06/the-crossroads-can-a-christian-vote-for-a-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Hageman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1055#comment-774</guid>
		<description>I have been perplexed by this question for some time now.  As I research various positions I become even more perplexed.  I am amazed at the number of professed Christians that believe they should make their decision based upon current US social issues or general morality of the candidates.  This seems to me like throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Time and again I see comments like if a Mormon candidate is &quot;pro-life&quot; and anti gay marriage then that makes them acceptable.  That means their decision is based upon positions on a few moral values rather then a position on the giver of moral values.

As a man of strong Christian faith I have felt the US is slowly moving away from God.  The aforementioned moral values are only a couple of examples of this.  So I have concluded the first and foremost question for a Christian to ask about a candidate is will this candidate bring our country closer to God or further away.  That was God&#039;s standard when Israel wanted a king.  He warned them a king would lead them away from Him.  That should be a Christians standard.

I personally believe a candidate that believes that god is an exalted man and that man can become a god is nothing short of the original temptation thrown our by Satan (...for you will be like God).  That candidate is NOT godly and has a faith that comes from the father of lies.  Such a candidate is likely not to bring our nation closer to God.

Then I hear &quot;what option do we have?&quot;  I agree with the underlying sentiment of the question but that does not allow me to ignore the important question.  Let us not forget who is in charge.  Regardless who our president is God is still on His thrown.  And if the majority of voters in this country demand a return to more traditional moral values our government will respond.  Our politicians love to be re-elected.  As I see it the problem is not the politicians but rather the electorate which is moving away from God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been perplexed by this question for some time now.  As I research various positions I become even more perplexed.  I am amazed at the number of professed Christians that believe they should make their decision based upon current US social issues or general morality of the candidates.  This seems to me like throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Time and again I see comments like if a Mormon candidate is &#8220;pro-life&#8221; and anti gay marriage then that makes them acceptable.  That means their decision is based upon positions on a few moral values rather then a position on the giver of moral values.</p>
<p>As a man of strong Christian faith I have felt the US is slowly moving away from God.  The aforementioned moral values are only a couple of examples of this.  So I have concluded the first and foremost question for a Christian to ask about a candidate is will this candidate bring our country closer to God or further away.  That was God&#8217;s standard when Israel wanted a king.  He warned them a king would lead them away from Him.  That should be a Christians standard.</p>
<p>I personally believe a candidate that believes that god is an exalted man and that man can become a god is nothing short of the original temptation thrown our by Satan (&#8230;for you will be like God).  That candidate is NOT godly and has a faith that comes from the father of lies.  Such a candidate is likely not to bring our nation closer to God.</p>
<p>Then I hear &#8220;what option do we have?&#8221;  I agree with the underlying sentiment of the question but that does not allow me to ignore the important question.  Let us not forget who is in charge.  Regardless who our president is God is still on His thrown.  And if the majority of voters in this country demand a return to more traditional moral values our government will respond.  Our politicians love to be re-elected.  As I see it the problem is not the politicians but rather the electorate which is moving away from God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Can a Christian Be Capitalist? by Charlie Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2011/08/26/can-a-christian-be-capitalist/comment-page-1/#comment-773</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=815#comment-773</guid>
		<description>Bravo, Chip! Exceptionally clear, concise, cogent, and insightful -- with practical lessons embedded in each paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, Chip! Exceptionally clear, concise, cogent, and insightful &#8212; with practical lessons embedded in each paragraph.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Crossroads: Should Christians Support Income Redistribution Efforts By The Government? by Steve</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/03/15/the-crossroads-should-christians-support-income-redistribution-efforts-by-the-government/comment-page-1/#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1173#comment-769</guid>
		<description>To Eric
While God designed a world of inequality - giving each of us a variety of gifts talents and skills that together build a community of people who have the benefit of relying upon one another - He also designed a society of equality.
The laws given through Moses in Leviticus clearly state God&#039;s intentions that all belongs to Him and we are given the land to stewart  and benefit from for a time. The year of Jubilee as commanded in the Torah was a chance to even the score. The lack of business savvy of one man, where he might lose some of his land, was not to be carried forward to his children, they got a new start as the land was returned to the family. This would also imply that the handing down of wealth to the next generation could not happen.
The command to allow for gleaning and not taking 100% off your farm fields shows God&#039;s foresight in knowing there will always be those in need.  
I agree fully with your second paragraph except that &quot;we should encourage government&quot; - this redefining of values and rewarding, looking with esteem upon those who live these values is a personal and community goal. As long as we use money as a sign of who wins, people will go hungry. The resource that puts food on the table and in the bellies of dieing children is the same resource hoarded by those who want to display their success.
We need to have them trade in the money and hand out trophies and gold stars instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Eric<br />
While God designed a world of inequality &#8211; giving each of us a variety of gifts talents and skills that together build a community of people who have the benefit of relying upon one another &#8211; He also designed a society of equality.<br />
The laws given through Moses in Leviticus clearly state God&#8217;s intentions that all belongs to Him and we are given the land to stewart  and benefit from for a time. The year of Jubilee as commanded in the Torah was a chance to even the score. The lack of business savvy of one man, where he might lose some of his land, was not to be carried forward to his children, they got a new start as the land was returned to the family. This would also imply that the handing down of wealth to the next generation could not happen.<br />
The command to allow for gleaning and not taking 100% off your farm fields shows God&#8217;s foresight in knowing there will always be those in need.<br />
I agree fully with your second paragraph except that &#8220;we should encourage government&#8221; &#8211; this redefining of values and rewarding, looking with esteem upon those who live these values is a personal and community goal. As long as we use money as a sign of who wins, people will go hungry. The resource that puts food on the table and in the bellies of dieing children is the same resource hoarded by those who want to display their success.<br />
We need to have them trade in the money and hand out trophies and gold stars instead.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Crossroads: Should Christians Support Income Redistribution Efforts By The Government? by Steve</title>
		<link>http://faithfulpolitics.org/2012/03/15/the-crossroads-should-christians-support-income-redistribution-efforts-by-the-government/comment-page-1/#comment-768</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithfulpolitics.org/?p=1173#comment-768</guid>
		<description>To Robert Howell
While in a perfect world - Which God and each of us know we do not live in - non-profits would be the soul provider of assistance to those in need, it is just not reality. Both government and non-profits doing all that they do still fall short of aiding the &#039;widows orphans&#039;  aliens and poor.  It is convenient to say non-profits do a better job (many do not) and government does a bad job (it could do better).  
We as a people will be judged and viewed by the world based upon how we treated the neediest amongst us. Each of us as individuals should and do bear the same judgement, whether by those who know us, our children, ourselves and God.    When taxes are lower more money is given to charity? - not sure that statistic has any teeth or reality. Certainly it is not a workable or easy solution to the person trying to figure out here the next meal will be coming from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Robert Howell<br />
While in a perfect world &#8211; Which God and each of us know we do not live in &#8211; non-profits would be the soul provider of assistance to those in need, it is just not reality. Both government and non-profits doing all that they do still fall short of aiding the &#8216;widows orphans&#8217;  aliens and poor.  It is convenient to say non-profits do a better job (many do not) and government does a bad job (it could do better).<br />
We as a people will be judged and viewed by the world based upon how we treated the neediest amongst us. Each of us as individuals should and do bear the same judgement, whether by those who know us, our children, ourselves and God.    When taxes are lower more money is given to charity? &#8211; not sure that statistic has any teeth or reality. Certainly it is not a workable or easy solution to the person trying to figure out here the next meal will be coming from.</p>
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